tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post5199907690899916385..comments2023-11-05T04:04:22.437-08:00Comments on Temple Library Reviews: The Pedophile Guidebook: Free Speech, Censorship and BoundariesHarry Markovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09140305922494369576noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-89522382612557808892010-11-12T19:55:56.929-08:002010-11-12T19:55:56.929-08:00Interesting title. It really got me. It seems like...Interesting title. It really got me. It seems like we will learn so much from this.<br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://bookcreak.com/" rel="nofollow">My blog bookcreak</a>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17369548101688586387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-59181345463266669972010-11-12T19:55:05.651-08:002010-11-12T19:55:05.651-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17369548101688586387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-23199554201242119932010-11-11T12:36:52.248-08:002010-11-11T12:36:52.248-08:00This is not a free speech issue. This is a busines...This is not a free speech issue. This is a business decision by Amazon to sell this book. Period. The author can write what he wants and print what he wants and then it's up to us if we want to buy it or support it. Booksellers do not have to sell everything in print. If enough people complain, Amazon may see their bottom line jeopardized and remove the book. But if that is their only reason, I want to know what in the world has happened to our decency. <br />Think about all the possible how-to books that could be written and sold on Amazon. Really, do I have to outline this? Why can't Amazon take a moral stand on this?Kathy Berkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00121628282594585306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-58769124051116330242010-11-10T16:07:28.198-08:002010-11-10T16:07:28.198-08:00If I yell "Allahu Akbar!" and "You ...If I yell "Allahu Akbar!" and "You are all going to die!" on a plane, that should be allowed, according to the "not-illegal" point of view.<br /><br />"Allahu Akbar" means "god is great"(,or "greater" according to some translations of Arabic), so that is an expression of my freedom of religion.<br /><br />"You are all going to die!" Is a fact. We are all going to die.<br /><br />However chances are you would be in a prison camp in Guantanamo, or a US friendly Arabic nation, if you uttered those.<br /><br />-This may seem a different subject, but actually in my example above, I don't fascilitate anyone else doing something illegal, but will likely go to jail.<br /><br />The book is, according to the author, written to help people get away with something illegal. The author knows this ,by writing it's his intention to help pedophiles getting "liter sentences".<br /><br />Yelling "Allahu akhbar" on a plane will get you jailed indefinately without a trial, and is not covered by the US 1st amendment. <br /><br />This is not an easy case, but for me it's not about banning books, but helping criminals.Weirdmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999326013335351617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-66033129959983971322010-11-10T15:51:18.293-08:002010-11-10T15:51:18.293-08:00It is certainly a tough topic, Harry.
If free spe...It is certainly a tough topic, Harry.<br /><br />If free speech is to mean anything at all, it must protect all speech, including written words, not just what we agree with. If it doesn't, it is meaningless babble. <br /><br />But...<br /><br />Someone else mentioned the limitations to free speech. In the US, that includes the concept of 'yelling fire in a crowded theater'. Such behavior is not covered under the First Amendment here because of the potential harm of such an act - the patrons could panic and people would get hurt trying to get out.<br /><br />So, is their potential here, with this book, for people to be harmed?<br /><br />I'd say yes, without a doubt. As far as I can see, there is no redeeming value in such a book so I have little trouble calling for it to be banned. <br /><br />Free speech isn't at issue. Protecting our most vulnerable people and upholding cultural mores and the law are.<br /><br />cjhCJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07798965643027904154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-77245036748064756772010-11-10T15:25:10.805-08:002010-11-10T15:25:10.805-08:00I think this crosses a line. I know the argument t...I think this crosses a line. I know the argument that we have to allow speech we don't like etc. etc., but like someone else mentioned, we make exceptions for things like child porn. This is at the bottom of the slippery-slope and I think a real argument can be made for pulling it.SQThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251030404220909306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-28953935650681251642010-11-10T13:41:17.729-08:002010-11-10T13:41:17.729-08:00This book disgusts me. It horrifies me. But two th...This book disgusts me. It horrifies me. But two thoughts come to me.<br /><br />1) I'm not sure I'm for censorship, even in this area.<br /><br />But:<br /><br />2) Amazon is a private company. This isn't a state matter. It isn't a matter of 'free speech' (unless the law steps in, which is sounds liek it might). Amazon can step in and make a judgement call. They have done it before.<br /><br />I was pissed off at AmazonFail. Why are my feelings mixed about this? I guess it's because AmazonFail was about Amazon (apprently) cutting out people and books for doing something that's perfectly OK - i.e. including homosexual content. Whereas this is about them NOT blocking something. Granted, there is no question that pedophilia is disgusting and so unlike homosexuality I don't even like using those terms in the same sentence. But people talking about something without acting on it... I don't like them talking about it, but I struggle when it comes to the point of banning them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-57644285041167343702010-11-10T12:48:30.002-08:002010-11-10T12:48:30.002-08:00@Metafrantic - And yet we still have laws that cen...@Metafrantic - And yet we still have laws that censure freedom of speech. I really don't think just because we censor one thing, it automatically means everything we ever hold dear will be censored. I do agree that we have to be careful giving too much power to the state.<br /><br />But, with books like this, where the intent is obvious - it's a guidebook for pedophiles - then censorship is okay.<br /><br />And I completely fear this. I have a son and I don't want some sicko ordering this crap and using it against him. I fear for such things. The more we allow the more we're setting ourselves up for a fall.<br /><br />I agree is a tough line to draw, and I usually support free speech, but this is my line.Bryce L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13951278240008332023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-81820371189722762672010-11-10T11:32:53.259-08:002010-11-10T11:32:53.259-08:00Greaves can write about pedophilia all he wants as...Greaves can write about pedophilia all he wants as far as I'm concerned- that is his right, no matter how disgusting and vile I believe it to be. But Amazon does not have to sell his books. They are a company, they choose what books to sell and not sell all the time. Greaves has every right and opportunity to sell his loathsome how-to guide at child rapists conventions and online, I won't try to stop him.<br /><br />But I will not associate with any company promoting or selling this book. It's not that it contains the subject of pedophilia, as others have pointed out Lolita is a highly read book (one I've personally read), but I somehow doubt that Amazon would sell books on how to blow up abortion clinics and get lighter sentences, or how to abuse old people in nursing homes and steal their pensions. I'm not calling for a boycott, but I won't be buying from Amazon until this book is removed. I can go buy a Nook.Kate @Midnight Book Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01220575670960466054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-17632404502451841322010-11-10T11:13:46.034-08:002010-11-10T11:13:46.034-08:00As this seems to be the only site on a google-sear...As this seems to be the only site on a google-search that actually discusses the problem between free speech and potentially harmful content I'll try to express my views here, even though I'm not a native English speaker (or writer or whatever).<br /><br />On the one side we have to see the medicinal side of paedophilia. The subject is highly disputed, is paedophilia a mental illness, a normal sexual alignment, a hybrid between both?<br />The only thing I can say is, that the actual sexual contact with a child is never to be tolerated, as the child is not able to decide rational for himself.<br />But we have to see that paedophiles do not only want to have sex but do want to have a romantic relationship with the child.<br /><br />And here comes the second point. No one seems to have read the book. So how comes people want to banish it, even though they don't know what is written in it? <br />There might actually be tips on how to avoid raping children and focussing your sexual desire on older and therefore legal subjects. (And hell no, I won't download it either to read it up. I don't want the police knocking on my door, asking me for a Pedophile Guidebook. And I don't even own a Kindl.)<br /><br />To me it seems that the only people who might actually know what is written in it are the guys at amazon.com and the author. Others who may have downloaded it might have pretty good reasons to not admit it.<br />As I see it we can only trust amazon.com that they know if the book is putting someone up to something illegal or not. And that they are acting accordingly.<br /><br />So for this reasons I'm on the side of free speech. If the book is illegal by law than ban it, if it's not illegal than amazon can sell it as much as they want.<br /><br />~ schandgalgen<br /><br />P.S.: It might be a bait for paedophiles set up by law enforcement. But it would be quite... obviously.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287742474871053651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-89880860588905024342010-11-10T11:13:02.946-08:002010-11-10T11:13:02.946-08:00That is atrocious!
Since it is instructing people ...That is atrocious!<br />Since it is instructing people how to do something that is illegal, I think it falls outside of the boundaries.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-62881833637573260972010-11-10T11:12:20.993-08:002010-11-10T11:12:20.993-08:00That's still slippery-slope talk, Bryce. You m...That's still slippery-slope talk, Bryce. You mention it's illegal - well so is murder, but we can still write about murdering people. You say we can all agree it's reprehensible... except for this group of people over here. <br /><br />Also: the person who wrote this book? Not a criminal. The people who read it? Not criminals. UNTIL they actually act on it and commit pedophilia. It is not illegal to read something, nor to write something.<br /><br />Yes, we are all right to hate such books. (Though I think fearing them is wrong.) And it's certainly our right to call for Amazon to remove it, and boycott them until they do. But I still contend that such thinking leaves itself open to the censoring of anything, so long as someone else feels it's wrong.Metafrantichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12093927544849331391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-76279722626762018742010-11-10T10:45:08.079-08:002010-11-10T10:45:08.079-08:00@Diana - We can still draw the line at this point....@Diana - We can still draw the line at this point. Christian fundamentalism might be revolting to you but it's not against the law not to mention something, like pedophelia, where we can all (outside of a very small and criminal minority) agree is reprehensible. <br /><br />And I think we're all in the right to hate/fear such books and it probably doesn't hurt to be ignorant of it's content either.Bryce L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13951278240008332023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-4032157996972113422010-11-10T10:36:58.598-08:002010-11-10T10:36:58.598-08:00Diana wrote, The thought that this book exists - a...Diana wrote, <em>The thought that this book exists - and that a publisher thought there was enough of a market to put it out there - sickens me. </em><br /><br />I really doubt Amazon was even aware of this book: it's self-published by a guy using Amazon's "publish your own Kindle book" software. Amazon is undoubtedely <em>now</em> aware, & probably taking action.<br /><br />"Censoring" is not the correct term for a for-profit business like Amazon looking to its image & its bottom line in a case like this. How many times can this be said? -- a business is not obligated to be the conduit for this guy's "free speech." This guy could go make copies of his writing and go from bookstore to bookstore in his own city and ask them to sell this book for him, but they don't have to. Likewise, Amazon doesn't have to permit him to use <em>their</em> storefront.<br /><br />Nor should they.Melissa S. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12858548044405913769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-87042419394365490662010-11-10T10:27:16.924-08:002010-11-10T10:27:16.924-08:00My ex-husband is a pedophile, and not a latent one...My ex-husband is a pedophile, and not a latent one - he molested my (then) tween-age sister. The thought that this book exists - and that a publisher thought there was enough of a market to put it out there - sickens me. <br /><br />That being said, we cannot censor this book, nor will I be boycotting Amazon until the book is gone. Censorship is a slippery slope...while we all find pedophilia revolting, what are the other things you, personally, find revolting? I find fundamentalism in Christianity revolting. I find seafood revolting. I find depictions of rape and spousal abuse revolting. Does this mean that material with these topics should be banned? <br /><br />No. Information is freedom, no matter what that information is. A society that bans books or other media creates hatred, fear, and ignorance. Don't we have enough of that in America?Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15460818673795786618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-92150797573087926892010-11-10T10:24:56.857-08:002010-11-10T10:24:56.857-08:00Since this is a Kindle-only book, as far as I can ...Since this is a Kindle-only book, as far as I can see, it's clear that Amazon doesn't care what they are publishing. <br />Obviously their moral is: We love money!Weirdmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999326013335351617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-27285284326831740452010-11-10T10:16:12.087-08:002010-11-10T10:16:12.087-08:00"I hope like hell the FBI is investigating th..."I hope like hell the FBI is investigating this guy..."<br /><br />They've been alerted to the book and it's author.<br /><br />http://bit.ly/kq5oj<br /><br />Law enforcement will review the tip and if there is cause, they will act. <br /><br />@geceosangeceosanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381323974235455082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-24735806539728479632010-11-10T10:14:51.750-08:002010-11-10T10:14:51.750-08:00"Freedom of speech" does not obligate a ..."Freedom of speech" does not obligate a business like Amazon to provide the speaker with a forum from which to speak, or through which to continue to propagate his offensive message.Melissa S. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12858548044405913769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-15566982584367147002010-11-10T10:08:42.803-08:002010-11-10T10:08:42.803-08:00@Metafrantic: AND that is the sad part of it... Re...@Metafrantic: AND that is the sad part of it... Really. <br /><br />As compensation I do hope that FBI is on to him!Harry Markovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09140305922494369576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-89415450699547038082010-11-10T10:05:08.570-08:002010-11-10T10:05:08.570-08:00David: This is what bother me. If we ban this pers...David: This is what bother me. If we ban this person, the next one could be me for some controversial fiction that I write. On principle it's not right and yet I definitely think that there should be repercussions. <br /><br />Tis why I am conflicted.<br /><br />Let's just hope that this is a scam.Harry Markovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09140305922494369576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-81959501798326756082010-11-10T10:03:55.155-08:002010-11-10T10:03:55.155-08:00Bear in mind Harry, I'm not necessarily advoca...Bear in mind Harry, I'm not necessarily advocating that people pressure Amazon to take it down. Gay-bashers have the legal right to boycott Amazon to pressure it to take down anything gay-friendly, but that doesn't mean it's right. You still have the problem of a slippery slope - where do we decide that something's SO immoral it can't be said or done?<br /><br />There's a difference between writing about something and the real thing. Actual pedophilia is disgusting and wrong, just like murder. But we can legally write about committing murder, so long as we don't actually do it. The same, sadly, should be true of pedophilia.<br /><br />Now personally, I hope like hell the FBI is investigating this guy, and if they find he did something, he goes to jail for the rest of his life. They should also investigate anyone stupid enough to buy the book. And I think there's a case to be made that the book advocates an illegal act to the point that it's a real risk someone takes it to heart. But until there's some real analytical evidence that the book's existence *will* cause pedophilic acts to happen, I don't think it's legitimate to take it down.Metafrantichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12093927544849331391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-91413936765848827632010-11-10T10:02:21.513-08:002010-11-10T10:02:21.513-08:00@Mieneke: I thought about my sister, which chilled...@Mieneke: I thought about my sister, which chilled me to the bone. I am not exactly saint-like and tend to not judge, but this can be someone's child and by child I mean child, so I do think it should be banned, even though inside I know I'm being a hypocrite.Harry Markovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09140305922494369576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-80655447535120176282010-11-10T10:01:05.513-08:002010-11-10T10:01:05.513-08:00After a long, hard think, I've decided I (and ...After a long, hard think, I've decided I (and this is my own opinion and not representative of my employers or any other party, etc. etc.) still stand firmly on the side of free speech. The very concept of the book is reprehensible, but it is one (judging by his other three books, loony-tunes) person's personal expression, and he is within his rights to create and distribute it.<br /><br />Personally, I think it's either an elaborate joke, or a publicity scam; maybe he intended to start a controversy about it to expose people's true views on censorship...David Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00886477189793178895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-518900633425692192010-11-10T09:59:57.973-08:002010-11-10T09:59:57.973-08:00Really in this case it is to protect a non-empower...Really in this case it is to protect a non-empowered group of people, children.<br /><br />Truer words have not been said.Harry Markovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09140305922494369576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3878336841714905515.post-46870077554700609132010-11-10T09:59:49.484-08:002010-11-10T09:59:49.484-08:00While on principle I'd have to agree that bann...While on principle I'd have to agree that banning books is bad, in this case I think the safety of the children that might become victims because a paedophile decided it could be okay to abuse them because of this guide has to come first. Because any one child is too many. I've been hemming and hawing over whether to click the report inappropriate content link on Amazon ever since I saw Ana tweet this afternoon. But when I got home and picked up my daughter and held her, my mind was made up. The thought that some thing vile like that book might end up in the hands of someone who might go on to hurt my child or anyone else's is chilling. So I clicked and told them that it should be taken down.<br /><br />On a more rational note, I think Metafrantic makes a really good point about the image thing. Amazon is very careful of its brand and will not want to see it smeared with this.Mieneke van der Salmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04782771945227479913noreply@blogger.com